Commuter feedback

[Train Planner]

Good Afternoon everyone.

HAs anyone heard anything or had any feedback from other commuter groups concernign the things they would like to see improved?.

Or schemes they would like to see implimented?

[Gerry]

My standard whinge is that the air con on the Electrosauna 375s is a complete con.

Presumably it's severely restricted because of inadequate trackside power supplies. Does anyone have more info, e.g. does it apply right across the network? Whatever the reason, this problem should have been entirely foreseeable and preventable.

So what are Southeastern Railway planning to do about it?

They've had over two years to fix this, so it's about time that something else was considered e.g. unlocking the four windows per coach. Unlikely to be a full solution but anything's better than nothing.

Amazing how history repeats itself: the current District Line stock (D78) had very similar problems when it was introduced. They had to retro fit opening windows throughout.

[Gerry]

I'm all in favour of scuppering the plan to put Networkers on the 1730 from Cannon Street, although for different reasons.

As I understand it, my 1804 will change from a refurbed Networker to a dreaded 12 x 375/9... there's absolutely nothing worse.

So I'd rather keep my cool on a relatively comfortable Networker rather than have a backbreaking Electrosauna HD !

[Richard Trevithick]

Hi,

My take on the airCON on the Electrofarts is this. It's far cheaper to de-gas the system (and hence stop the juicy 3-phase compressors from running) and just leave the fans circulating warm/hot air. This is my educated guess as to what's happening. Over the last few years I've only encountered 1 - maybe 2 - where the system is actually doing it's job and producing cool air, yet Southern units are ALWAYS comfortable.

Let's hope that Mr Horton will drive up standards on the Eastern...


Richard

[O.V.S.Bulleid]

During changeover I'll post messages to both the BBC Message Board and here. This is a copy of my posting of two days ago: -

Dear GorgeousCelestine

Beware of Meet the Managers sessions as some information will be very specific to your question and should not be taken as indicative of the position for everyone.

You are a Staplehurst passenger so the reply would be related to Staplehurst for peak hour services - it will not necessarily apply to Stumpy for example. (and you will lose your fast off-peak services to Charing Cross)

Word in the ether is that GoVex are actually worried about the DfT specification and are trying to negotiate changes (and this might be why you have not seen them published). My guess is that services from Hastings and Tunbridge Wells plus stations between Tonbridge and Pluckley will be comparible to now but those from east of Ashford and on the Chatham mainline will have significant changes in order to promote change to the ChavLine services whilst keeping "train miles" virtually the same.

The big issue for GoVex is whether passengers will change to the St Pancras route. I think that the best estimate that I have seen is that 1/3 might change but 2/3 will continue as now. Ashford has the greatest time saving to "London" (in its broadest sense) but the overall origin to destination time saving will be pretty negligable - but more expensive - for most.

On the Chatham mainline there is no gain whatsoever for 95% of passengers but the DfT have already contracted for the CTRL capacity and bought the trains so the trains will be operated unless a political decision on the danger of the government losing Kent seats at the next election becomes real. I expect that the major problems will occur on that route and be so serious as to force a re-think after it has been implemented (as happened at c2c and don't forget how the DfT got First Great Western so wrong).

A quick note to Lordy100 - yes it will be 37 minutes from North London to Ashford but the time taken to get there from most workplaces will negate any time benefit but be more expensive (and don't forget that everytime the fares increase goes above RPI+3% between Ashford/Gravesend and London, the higher the premium for travel over the route can be).


Yours sincerely
O.V.S.Bulleid

[O.V.S.Bulleid]

Just a clarification on my posting of yesterday: -

The 1/3 is from Ashford and stations east moving to ChavLine services and the 2/3 will still prefer the Charing Cross route.

The apparent struggle for the DfT to actually see sense is quite difficult to understand: -
The Ashford route is the one which may give the greater number of passengers a quicker (if more expensive) service but this accounts for only 2 of the 8 trains per peak hour. Of the other 6 - 4 serve Medway and half of these will serve stations to Thanet. 2 of the 4 will be 6 cars only and will block the main line across the Medway only to terminate at Rochester (what a waste of infrastructure capacity). These 4 services form the bulk of trains that will only require the full 140mph capability for some 9 miles of their journey. What of the other 2 trains - well they will stop at Stratford and Ebbsfleet only so hardly coming into Kent.

This means that 6 of 8 trains will rely on attracting more than the estimate of a 5% switch by choice - so where is the real business case for continuing the original plan unless there is a financial incentive to do so?

Far better would be to run the Ashford route - but also stopping at Ebbsfleet as well as 2 trains per hour from Faversham - as an all day service then consider the best way to use the rest of the rolling stock during the whole day. By far the best solution all round would be to use the higher speed of the CTRL1 coupled with a classic terminal and run some all day services from Ashford to Victoria (or later Waterloo). These might operate on the basis of coming from the branch not served by the ChavLine train and then follow it (3 minutes behind) to Southfleet Junction and then up the Chatham mainline.

Yours sincerely
O.V.S.Bulleid

[trainplanner]

Good Morning to the new and not so new members and any refugees from the old BBC board.
The BBC have kindly posted on our site as a guest explaining the decision i hope it isn't the last thing they say here!

as usual the first train through bromley south which allows the use of off peak travel cards is a four car..

Any word from south eastern when this train is to be strengthend?
I've written to my MP but have not had any answers yet!.

MR Trevitick can you enquire at the depot why this one (the 8:56 off gillingham) is not strengthend by my namessakes?

How are peoples commutes coming, and for those who read as you now can post on any forum as a guest please let us know what your experiences are. The more who post as guests the better we can make any case to those at the top who no doubt will read this...

[heofgreatwisdom]

Good morning all..or not so good if you happen to want to get anywhere. I have returned home having given up attempting to get through Sevenoaks to Tunbridge Wells. As usual lots of chat but no action.

[robbierunciman]

I was luckier - I think.

I travelled on the 08h15 from Ashford which paused at Tonbridge for a long time, they warned about trouble at SevenOaks and then did not have a driver to take it the train onto Charing cross. After updates about the imminent arrival of a driver we left 40 mins late and went via Redhill and Norwood junction to get to charing cross.

Annoyed at lack of driver but impressed by lateral thinking to get train to London and the performance of the guard who passed on info when he had it!

[celestine]

Hey I must have done better than most.

My train (7.40 from Staplehurst, think it originates in Ramsgate) trundled slowly along and got to Cannon St 22 minutes late. I know it was 22 mins late as the station announcer said so....However, on the " yesterday's performance" board of SE website it is declared as 14 mins late. What kind of clock are SE trains using??

It was really crowded though as all the Charing Cross trains were cancelled.

And FYI, I haven't real;y stopped being "gorgeous", just thought we could now drop the formailities!!
Cel x

[trainplanner]

Afternoon All, and Celestine, we always knew you were gorgeous, we just didn't want to make you blush by constantly reminding you of it!

Your right, SET services often have a large amount of recovery time in them at the ends of thier journeys, and the current issue of the railway magazine has a article on sorting out southeastern.. It shows just how tight and difficult things are. But it doesn't address the issues that we all know and love, that all servcies generally take too long, and that when it goes wrong it goes seriously wrong. It does mention london bridge as the lynchpin of the whole network which we all know is true however.

Anyway i digress.

A recent series of articles in both the times and the guardian indicate that people are no longer fooled by the PPM values, and bemoans the system which is used to exploit passengers. There are lies damn lies and statistics as someone once said.

Network rail was quoted as saying that they will be going through each operators timetable to remove excessive time to free up additional capacity, and operate a sharper railway. This shoudl also lead to better understanding the causes and delays on the network.

Heres to faster journey times and a properly operated network for the future, but then what is the future if not history repeating itself...

So has anyone had more direct feedback from thier MP's and south eastern on the plight of the average commuter? and has anyone found out where the new south eastern rolling stock is to be deployed?.

Regards

TP

[jralphc]

Chaos this morning trying to get into town from Ashford. Ice on the conductor rail in the Wye area??? With temperatures well above freezing? Having left Ashford on the nominal 07:02 some 25 minutes late, in a carriage with no heating and only the emergency lighting, sat at Tonbridge while the driver tried and failed to rebconfigure the train, then finally got booted off at Sevenoaks when it was decided the train was too defective to continue, or at least the rear four coaches. Hey ho! Piled on to the following train which was of course (a) late due to following our train, and (b) overcrowded, inevitably. I won't try your patience with the horror story of my onward journey from Charing Cross, sufficient to say the journey door to door took four hours this morning. Need a strong cup of coffee....

[robbierunciman]

Amazing day, problems at Wye, problems at Robertsbridge, then the fire at LB, its like the day from hell. On a day when so much went wrong and so many odd changes and terminations occured, one thing slightly annoyed me.

The 08h15 from Ashford normally joins 4 carriages from Hastings at Tonbridge. Because of the Robertsbridge problems, these were late. I was puzzled when the Ashford portion was then cancelled leaving even more people to swirl about at Tonbridge and then join another train that was abruptly terminated at 7oaks. I ended up on a Blackfriars train!

I know it would have been short and crowded, but folks would have got to to Town on time. The return leg would hardly have been packed and if necc, the other carriages could have been rejoined at Tonbridge.

Journey home equally puzzling.

[genehuntisking]

As a member of South Eastern staff, I hesitate to join, having viewed from afar the BBC board, but have decided to "step into the lions den" as it were.

I have to be careful what I write, as you can never be quite sure who is reading these sort of things, but wanted to pick up on two points regarding last Friday, which wasn't one of the better days.

Firstly the ice problems in the morning were due to a heavy shower of rain about 05.00 in the morning falling in a band running across from Robertsbridge in the south over through Headcorn/Ashford way, also affecting Charing and Wye. Although the air temperature may have been above freezing, hence rain not snow, it would appear the rail temperature was considerably colder, causing the rain to freeze in a sheet of ice on contact with the conductor rails. I know that about 06.45 the rail temperature at Robertsbridge was reported to be -5C. These sort of conditions where rain falls on a frozen conductor rail are the worst possible for running third rail pick up electric trains.

On a similar note regarding rail temperatures, in the summer rail temperatures can get as high as 37/38C, which of course the air temperature doesn't manage.

Regarding the 08.15 Ashford - Tonbridge, unfortunately the driver and conductor who work forward to London come up on the portion from Hastings, and so would have been trapped down the line. While there are some spare crews, I suspect by 08.50 in the morning on a day such as this (bearing in mind the scale of disruption) they would already have been used. I know for a fact that the 07.30 Tonbridge - Hastings is worked by a Hastings crew who come up on one of the early trains to Tunbridge Wells (from memory the 05.55 Hastings which joins to 05.45 Hastings at Tunbridge Wells). As they were trapped down the Hastings line by the first train of the day getting stuck in the ice round Robertsbridge, I suspect the morning spare driver and conductor would have been used to try and run 07.30 Tonbridge - Hastings.

In the evening on Friday there was some sort of fire on a Thameslink train, I believe just out of London Bridge somewhere over Borough Market, and the fire brigade were in attendance, which meant turning off the traction current on the up and down Charing Cross lines. In truth it is hard to think of a worse place for a train to come to grief.

I hope this goes someway to answering some of the queries.

Gene Hunt appreciation socity.

[trainplanner]

Good Afternoon to GeneHuntisking, welcome to the baord.
Thankyou for stepping into the lions den, although we hope that this isn't just a lions den, and that the forum is of use to those who read and use the boards.

If you (or anyone else) feels that you are being unfairly treated or abused then say so and i and the moderator team will deal with the posts/posters concerned.

Firstly, if senior South Eastern management were to provide more detailed information, about why things go wrong and what is being done to try and solve it. then perhaps people would be much happier, as at the moment when it goes wrong, radio silence is the perception that most people have.

Secondly, thankyou for the detailed explanation regarding what went wrong on friday.

The ice on the conductor rail was a situation that couldn't have been prevented. Perhaps when announcements of delays due to frozen conductor rails are announced, perhaps the time the ice formed may help pacify peoples anger, as at the moment, they assume it falls overnight (ie between 11pm and 4am) and that it should be dealt with so it doesn't impact on services, when in this case nothing could be done.

As for the issue of drivers and crew being out of place due to delays, we know that due to complex diagramming of crews and units, (with there not being enough of both) South easterns hands are tied as to the numbers they can have so we end up with those crews left doign their best, perhaps without the public support they genuinely deserve.

How have peoples commutes gone?

TP