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Post by Richard Trevithick on Mar 30, 2008 12:09:47 GMT
Hi,
I'm curious to know peoples feelings about this.
It also shows off another feature of the forum, an online users poll. ;D
Richard
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Post by vinnie on Mar 30, 2008 17:15:44 GMT
I know you're not going to like this but i think HS1 is going to be a success.I'm going to be a driver on the new route and like everything,given time,people will get used to it.
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Post by chapelwood on Mar 30, 2008 20:52:10 GMT
Some conclusions as to how Kent commuters might react to the services on HS1 can be drawn from what happens on the lines from Cambridge and Peterborough. Cambridge commuters have a choice of fast trains to Kings Cross, from where most will need to use the tube to their offices, or slower trains to Liverpool Street from where they might walk to city offices. The evidence is that most prefer to travel via Kings Cross. Commuters from Peterborough have to travel to Kings Cross, but have a choice between fast trains operated by NXEC or slower ones operated by FCC. A lower FCC only fare is available, but the evidence is that the majority prefer the faster trains at the higher fare. I suspect therefore that those who think HS1 will be a huge white elephant may be wide of the mark, though I come into teh category of not sure at the moment.
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Post by Paolo on Mar 31, 2008 17:29:46 GMT
Using the train from Staplehurst to Charing Cross, with a five minute walk to work, I shall definitely not be using it. Hi to you all, by the way.  |
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Post by Richard Trevithick on Mar 31, 2008 20:21:14 GMT
I know you're not going to like this but i think HS1 is going to be a success.I'm going to be a driver on the new route and like everything,given time,people will get used to it. I'm not bothered either way - we're all entitled to our personal opinions - living or dead! Personally, I have no doubt that people will use it on a regular basis, but I can't help believe, at least for the length of the current franchise, it won't be the huge "hit" they are desperately hoping it will be... Congratulations on the new job, I hope it works out well for you. Dare I ask which depot you will be based at? Rumour has it that all work / route knowledge will be identical between all 3 depots, which wasn't previously the case? And welcome to the forum.  If it does turn out to be a big flop in say, 4-5 years time, have you been advised on what will happen regarding staffing? Will they keep everyone on at a considerable loss, or lay people off, or return to alternative depots? The information that has "floated" in my direction has been very, very vague about their long-term plans... Paolo - welcome to the forum! Kind regards, Richard |
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Post by Robbiethelyddite on Mar 31, 2008 22:30:27 GMT
HS1 would work if it was operated by Eurostar in competition with Govia. I wrote to them about this service recently, asking if there would be incentives for East Kent Commuters to use the service. They said that they were still planning and that if an economic argument for a particular service could be made, they would introduce it (I suggested including the underground hop to and from a zone 1 station as part or the overall ticket price) Regarding the comparsion with the Midlands...  I recently was in the Midlands on holiday and needed to go into town for the day. I checked out the return fares from three local stations, Northampton, Kettering and Peterborough. They were £43, £76 and £77 & £40, respectively. What amazed me was that there was little in the train times (the quickest was 47mins and the average 65mins, the longest 78 mins) and only one (£76) is a genuine high speed train service. I opted for Northampton! I would like to see some numbers on the assertion that commuters prefer the more expensive faster service, people I know in 'Pity borrow' commute on the cheaper services. Most of the early trains seem to be First capital connect. I guess National express soaks up the first class passengers from the other service on the few seats that remain by the time their trains reach Peterborough. |
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Post by trainplanner on Apr 1, 2008 8:18:33 GMT
Ladies and Gents, sorry it has taken me a few days to transfer over, but i am here at last so i guess just like southeastern i get there eventually!
A few musings,
I Think that the servcies from ashford on the CTRL will be well used, the journey time saving being worth the money for most people, from medway it will be more difficult to predict. i do however think a degree of new business will come from the south of medway driving to ebbsfleet, but the shift from the classic servcies is likely to be much smaller than DFT/Southeastern predicted.
As for the services on NXEC from peterbrough to london, whilst the journey time maybe faster on the mainline when comapred to the thameslink, given the requirements of pathing and signalling the "fast" trains amoungst the the "slow" ones, they all seem to do comparable journey times. I've also noticed that many "fasts" now have additional stops at the larger smaller stations to pick up passengers to spread the load into london.
On a related note, a letter in the current Modern Railways suggests that the servcies from medway should not operate via gravesend, suggesting instead a connection near sole street, which implies that the short time saving will not encourage many people to shift given the significantly higher fare.
What ohter feedback did people get from the cannon street meet the manager recently? did they say much about medway cannon street services?
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Post by chapelwood on Apr 1, 2008 11:09:08 GMT
Network Rail has now published the definitive version of the South London Route Utilisation Study. I haven't yet ploughed through the full document (160 pages) but a key sentence in the executive summary states in relation to peak services following the start of domestic trains on HS1: 'The DfT has since agreed with Southeastern that they maintain services at broadly current levels into established terminals.' I won't post a link, pending clarification of Group Rules, but it is no doubt easily found on the Network Rail site.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 1, 2008 13:19:12 GMT
Richard,
I wasn't particularly directing my post to you but to the contributors of the old BBC forum,of whom i think it's pretty fair to say were anti HS1.
I haven't met any managers local or senior that are desperate for HS1 to be a success,but I'm sure the very senior people will get big fat pay cheques come what may.
I don't think i should reveal my depot but you are correct about the route knowledge.
I can't say what's going to happen in 4-5years time,does anyone look that far ahead on the railway?hopefully,if it is a flop,they will keep us on and we can have an easy life,only joking.If HS1 is a success i'm sure there will be a HS2.
Thank you for your kind remarks,
Vinnie.
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Post by O.V.S.Bulleid on Apr 1, 2008 18:46:45 GMT
Hi Vinnie
Congratulations on being selected to drive the new trains.
I have said on the old BBC message board that I believe that the CTRL-DS service (or ChavLine) has a good purpose but have examined the statistics relating to workplace distribution now and for 10 years ahead and this leaves me with an opinion that a service would be welcome but that it is too frequent in its early years - migtation between workplaces and between residential places does not happen overnight. Certainly camden is going to increase its workplace numbers but much less than Westminster and the City (Canary Wharf is assessed by the experts as only slightly expanding).
If I could now say how I believe the CTRL should be developed then here goes - and I expect to take flack on it. There should be an expansion of international day and night services. Given some minor changes in immigration practice the SNCF domestic trains could start back from London using the spare Eurostar sets currently running on their domestic services. Secondly some change to the Channel Tunnel requirements the DB ICE3 sets could operate good services on the Brussels branch. Last there is room for sleeper services to start. These would need to conform to LGV requirements for 17 tonnes axle load but should be capable of 300kph up to 23.00 and from 07.00 with normal slower times overnight. Calculations suggest that these would inevitably be in mountainous areas anyway.
Finally I believe that there should be some services from Ashford (and some from beyond) directly to the West Coast Mainline using Pendolinos equiped with TVM430. St Pancras provides a cross platform interchange to the Midland and East Coast routes but there is still an interstation treck for Euston. The principle isn't new as it happens at Lille on the same basis.
Coming back to the ChavLine I would expect 2 services from Ashford and 2 from Faversham would suffice for the whole day at first - until the new building in Thames Gateway starts to get settled on which people will start to match location to jobs in North London.
Am I alone in this view please?
Best wishes
OVS
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Post by heofgreatwisdom on Apr 2, 2008 8:09:25 GMT
How nice to be back among friends. Interesting article in the Railway Mag this month on SouthEastern. A statement therein discusses speed restrictions as a result of ultrasound testing particularly at Sevenoaks. Goes on to say that these restrictions are cleared for normal speeds within three days unless the location is unusually inaccessible. So what went wrong with our seven month problem then!!!
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Post by Richard Trevithick on Apr 2, 2008 15:53:50 GMT
Vinnie, Old Chap! I'm sorry if I came across as taking your message personally! It wasn't intended that way, I was just saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on every issue under discussion, and I wasn't offended by your choice! My excuse is, my medium and I have been working long and hard lately with this board suddenly springing to life as it has (I wish us dead engineers could resurrect so quickly!). Hence, my medium is typing as fast as I dictate, and both of us are getting rather tired, and perhaps not paying as much attention as we ought to or could do! Some of my contacts in the living world are actually led to believe that most, if not all, senior managers are quite keen (to the point of being desperate!) for HS1 to be an astounding success from day 1. Indeed, there is much money and reputation on the line, and plenty of egg to be flung at many big faces should it be the flop that some of us envisage. I sincerely WOULD like it to be a big success from the beginning, but I can't help but believe with the feeling of many passengers views on here, plus the relatively tiny percentage of Kent commuters that it will benefit (and that's before removing those who can't afford it or aren't willing to pay but who do live in the catchment area) that the hopes are set far higher than reality actually permits. We mustn't forget that politics is the main reason why it was constructed. Still, only time can tell... Fair comment about not naming your future depot. Mind you, with the choice of AX, FX or RX, even my maths suggests there'd be at least a 33% chance of guessing correctly!  Sorry! *blushes* *grabs coat*! Although it doesn't always appear so, many things on the railway are actually planned well in advance! The reason I asked about job security is because from many of my "driver seance" sessions, many drivers have decided against applying for HS1 because of the lack of guarantee of employment and job security several years down the road if things don't happen as expected... I was just wondering if they had offered anything more concrete since the initial details wer released. Kind regards, Richard Trevithick |
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Post by O.V.S.Bulleid on Apr 2, 2008 19:25:05 GMT
Mr Trevithick my good man, how good to meet you again, you haven't changed much - a little older perhaps but not a day over 200 I guess.
I tend to think that the prospect for blood on the line must be at the front of GoVex's senior manager's minds over the next year. The same applies to Government MPs of course because if GoVex and the DfT cannot get a product that is popular in terms of being afordable and much quicker for the passengers' journeys than now - there will be new MPs in the House.
If GoVex are hung out to dry by the DfT then they could walk away or finance a solution themselves. I would not subscribe to the redundancy option for GoVex as it would be very expensive to add to the costs of training etc. I would expect that natural wastage will take some and service changes will probably take others. (Let's face it - the CTRL service will not take anywhere near a majority of GoVex's passengers - even in their own business plan.)
As I said I believe that the right level of service on day one should be 4tph and if you check that against GoVex's own carryings estimate over the start-up years then it checks out. This part though is out of GoVex's hands as the DfT have subscribed to 50% of the CTRL's capacity for domestic traffic and then gone out and contracted for some very expensive rolling stock.
I believe that Charles Horton is going to tread a difficult path over the next few years and I do wish him well - but he should try harder to get the DfT to continue an attractive fast classic service from Ashford/Faversham to London to supplement the changover period - and could use the spare 395s to do it.
Best wishes
OVS
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Post by Vinne on Apr 2, 2008 23:19:47 GMT
Richard,
No offence taken and i'm sure none intended.
I am new to this board, so can you explain about the dead people,what's it all about?
Again, i can only say i know of no managers that are desperate,but then again perhaps that statement is a contradiction in terms.I would say that 99% of the management on connex now work for southeastern and so i don't think reputations apply.
As i have said before,the people with the real clout are going to walk away with a big pile of money no matter what happens.
I would like HS1 to be a winner as i'm sure most people would.I'm not so sure it's for only Kent commuters though, i think the government are looking north.
I think it's pretty obvious that HS1 is going north.
I didn't name my depot because,well ,you know why.
On your last point, who knows what the future holds for any of our jobs,but as far as i know we can transfer back to the 'classic' depots.
If not we strike!
I must remember to be more conservative.
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Post by Vinne on Apr 2, 2008 23:24:30 GMT
Dear ovs,
thank you for your kind remarks
Vinne.
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Sorry! *blushes* *grabs coat*!