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Post by Richard Trevithick on Jul 12, 2009 18:12:04 GMT
It would be extremely expensive to provide WiFi for the whole length of HS1, although I do agree that a premium service should have some perks. I'm not sure of the exact technical setup, but you will need base stations along the whole length of the line, feeders to each one and then all of the on train equipment. As most mobile phones have built in broadband these days, it's MUCH cheaper and easier to rely on people using their inclusive data.
RT
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Post by jumpedup on Jul 12, 2009 20:08:22 GMT
Problem is that people using their mobiles will have the same problem. Most of the line from EBD to STP is in tunnels and the mobiles won't work either.
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Post by Richard Trevithick on Jul 13, 2009 15:30:38 GMT
Very good point, Jumped up! That'll teach a dead engineer to comment on new technology! I've kindly asked my Medium to do a little research for me, and she's come up with these links: www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/15/t-mobile_wimax_wifi_train/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3607357.stmTo summarise, many trains are using satellite broadband but have mobile phone technology as a backup for when the satellite is unavailable (which will presumably decrease available bandwidth). The service on Southern is slightly different as it's reliant on a variation of the mobile phone technology. 5 years ago, a typical base station would cost £5,000 and they were needed every mile to ensure decent coverage. That's £300,000 for just the base stations, and that doesn't include the cost of equipment fitted on each train. They also fitted the base stations mostly at their own stations to keep the cost down (i.e. no rent to Notwork Rail or other land owners). HS1 is a completely different beast as there are no stations along the route to bolt the base stations to, so it'd be down to paying rent to NR or other land owners. Plus I'm sure the cost of each base station is considerably more expensive than the £5,000 it was 5 years ago. And then there's the cost of getting a broadband connection to each of these sites too, plus the monthly running costs. What with the current financial climate, I think at least for the next few years it'd be a non-starter. A partnership with Eurostar would be a nice thought, but with the current financial problems they are experiencing, I think that too would be a non-starter. Even if it were to be done, I dread to think of how much it'd cost (on top of the premium on top of the base ticket!). So, for the time being at least, mobile phones and bluetooth connections it is then! Happy commuting, Richard
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Post by jumpedup on Jul 13, 2009 17:59:56 GMT
Advertising stepping up - received leaflet about the Preview Services through the door this morning via Royal Mail (in Faversham).
Nothing mentioning the vast changes to occur in December 2009 (whether or not you want to go from FAV-STP)...
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Post by Vinnie on Jul 25, 2009 21:35:50 GMT
Hello is anybody there?
It's nice to see that there are no problems on any of the routes and everything is running smoothly,well done Southeastern.
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Post by heofgreatwisdom on Jul 27, 2009 7:20:27 GMT
Hello Vinnie et al. Yes we are all here beavering away at our usual daily grind. As you correctly say all is well at present and long may it continue.
HOGW
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Post by sibodkent on Jul 28, 2009 15:06:41 GMT
Hello Vinnie et al. Yes we are all here beavering away at our usual daily grind. As you correctly say all is well at present and long may it continue. HOGW Had a quick chat with the lady in the ticket booth at Ebbslfeet Seems most people are happy with the service, except the bus links are proving a nightmare. People are also very very upset with the parking costs at Ebbsfleet - simply put - they are far too expensive. People are parking at Bluewater and catching the fast-track down instead!! When the service goes live, Arriva, Southeastern and the Kent County Council need to sit down and work out a proper stategy for transport in the area. You cant expect daily commuters to pay £8 - the same as someone going away to France for 24 hours for example. Furthermore, the Fast-track is the only bus link that goes to and from Ebbsfleet - and is too unreliable at present. (This morning 2 buses were out of action due to mechanical failure and vandalism - so people were missing trains due to busses not turning up - me included!). I have written to Arriva to ask if they are going to run more services through Ebbslfeet as pedestrian access is not possible, and also the frequency of services is greater than Gravesend, with Fast-track being very limited for most people. (The gravesend 499, 498/5, 490, 308/7 all go past Ebbslfeet or close to it on their routes out to Bluewater or Pepper Hill - adding a stop at Ebbsfleet should not add to omuch to these services and would give people a much more direct route in without having to interchange at Gravesend). Frankly I dont expect much - Arriva seem to be content on running a skeleton service to most places and dont seem to care wether a b us is late or not (they got lots of money for fast-track though!). Anyone else got feedback?
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Post by sibodkent on Jul 31, 2009 9:23:14 GMT
There was a piece in the London Lite last night,
apparently the HS1 tiral has been a huge success, os much so that SET are planning to open up the service even ore before the december launch.
I spoke with a train manager just after readinf this, but she was unaware of any solid plans. Apparently they are just 'in talks' ab out the possibility.
They need 3 things: 1. To look at the timetables. 2. Trained staff. 3. Enough stock delivered and passed the tests.
Anyone else want to shed some light on this?
Passenger numbers are definitely up on a regular basis commuting in and out of london, too, from ebbs-fleet..
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Post by trainplanner on Jul 31, 2009 10:27:27 GMT
I suspect they are keen to capitalise on the success of the service from ashford and ebbsfleet. Only question is, what will happen to numbers when the preview fares are increased to the full amounts and will there be the same level of success on those services which do not use the high speed line for the bulk of thier journey??
As for the fleet, they are all either here or in transit, and it is then a case of ensuring enough trained staff.
I'm not sure they could introduce the full servcie yet as the timings wouldn't match the existing timetable...
Peoples thoughts??
Regards TP
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Post by moggycat on Jul 31, 2009 11:53:35 GMT
I saw the same piece in yesterday's Evening Standard about how successful the service has become, accompanied by a photo of Ashford platform and I counted 10 people in the picture and it didn't look overcrowded.
A colleague has been using it and said it was very comfortable but the problem is the underground journey being overcrowded, hot etc and of course the cost. He will not decide until he knows what the fare will be.
Some people have said they think there should be some sort of deal where the underground (or overground) back to traditional SE termini such as Cannon St/CX should be free as an incentive to get people on to it.
The 'classic' service (17.44 Notworker etc) has been bad lately - not meeting connections, short formed, plus the annoying last minute changes to platforms at Cannon St - several glitches that add up to a lot of irritation. Noticeably fewer passengers but I think they are on holiday, as opposed to on the fast trains to St Pancras.
We do wonder whether the classic service is being deliberately cocked up to make St P seem more attractive. It is also annoying that it will get even slower when they bring in the fast trains. I don't see why they have to have a dis-incentive as people like me have no real alternative other than to keep on using it.
There is also the engineering work on the tunnels between Folkestone and Dover, supposedly to facilitate the running of fast trains through them. I have had no problems with revised trains as a result of this but have overheard complaints from people travelling on holiday who were not aware, people going on days out etc.
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Post by sibodkent on Jul 31, 2009 14:35:30 GMT
I suspect they are keen to capitalise on the success of the service from ashford and ebbsfleet. Only question is, what will happen to numbers when the preview fares are increased to the full amounts and will there be the same level of success on those services which do not use the high speed line for the bulk of thier journey?? As for the fleet, they are all either here or in transit, and it is then a case of ensuring enough trained staff. I'm not sure they could introduce the full servcie yet as the timings wouldn't match the existing timetable... Peoples thoughts?? Regards TP I get the impression these are going to be the 'final' fares as they are offering a yearly season ticket already that covers HS1 and travel to and from ebbsffleet or Gravesend/northfleet etc. Moggycat - it's worth trying out some of the busses in the area. Quite a lot pass by Euston Road and go in either direction, instead of the tube. Also I catch the Picadilly line - and if I get in at the front or back it's always fairly empty comparatively speaking. Perhaps I'm lucky
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Post by jumpedup on Aug 13, 2009 8:47:37 GMT
News Aug 13 2009 High speed preview reaches Dover and Ramsgate Southeastern today announced the expansion of high speed preview services to Ramsgate, Canterbury West, Dover Priory, Folkestone Central and West. The new services will start from 7 September. Charles Horton, managing director, Southeastern, commented, “We always hoped we could expand the preview service and thanks to the success of the first weeks we are now in a position to do this. We want as many people as possible to be able to experience the service before the full timetable is introduced in December.” There will be two morning peak services from Ramsgate via Canterbury West and two peak services from Dover Priory via Folkestone Central and Folkestone West, returning in the evening peak. All the new services will also stop at Ashford International, resulting in an additional peak service on top of the current three trains to St Pancras International. An off-peak return train is also being introduced between St Pancras International and Ashford International via Ebbsfleet. Trains from Ebbsfleet International will continue to have six morning peak services to St Pancras International and seven services back in the evening peak. Throughout the day, services run twice hourly between Ebbsfleet International and St Pancras International. All the services will continue to run Monday to Friday. The new services will radically improve journey times, for example saving 49 minutes on the average commute from Ramsgate and 47 minutes from Dover. [All above from southeastern website www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/news/news_items/view/110- all propaganda their responsibility!]
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Post by O.V.S.Bulleid on Aug 16, 2009 18:50:04 GMT
Yes - GoVex are correctly concentrating on Ashford Line services and leaving the Medway Towns and North Kent well alone as these are most likely to be the places where "High Speed" was yesteryear and the new services to North London are still slower than when the line was electified.
Out of pure interest in how much faster the train will be I have taken a look at the 1912 South Eastern and Chatham timetable and the 17.10 service From Holborn Viaduct (now City Thameslink), 17.12 from St Pauls (now Blackfriars) arrived Faversham at 18.21 (as slipped coaches from the main train which did not stop). Margate West (now Margate) arrival 18.47, Broadstairs 18.55 and Ramsgate Harbour (closed in 1926) 19.02.
Even when the line was electrified in 1959 the 17.14 from Cannon Street arrived Whitstable at 18.19 and Margate at 18.40.
The new "High Speed" trains will take 66 minutes to reach Faversham, 75 minutes to Whitstable and 94 minutes to reach Margate - 8 minutes slower than the electric services of 50 years ago and only 3 minutes faster than 97 years ago.
Now the trains - well they are fast (but that is it). They aren't particularly quiet, travelling over the bogies is a little rough at times and have seats that are no better than 375s - although a little more legroom (but not much). Am I right in thinking that seat pitch and window spacing isn't in synch?
Underground over a period of a commuter medium's travel on them seems to confirm the 25 minutes to his City destination - so perhaps not a season ticket purchase unless you are travelling from Ashford and stations east and like overcrowded Northern Line tube services in which case it might give adequate value. My medium is going to revert back to a lower priced ticket on renewal and take the opportunity to have a nap before walking from the station to his office. Much better than queuing to get through tube ticket barriers before being wedged in the corner of the underground train.
In terms of passenger ridership - well GoVex are pleased but it does seem as though they might wish for more off-peak passengers as, I am advised by a Gravesend lady who "simply adores" retail therapy, some trains seem to be almost devoid of them.
Good luck to GoVex with the new services from 7th September and I suppose the same for North Kent when passengers find out just how much the Victoria services have been decelerated and the Ashford - Charing Cross fast services are withdrawn.
Yours sincerely O.V.S.Bulleid
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Post by barrygillingham on Aug 17, 2009 11:45:39 GMT
Even when the line was electrified in 1959 the 17.14 from Cannon Street arrived Whitstable at 18.19 and Margate at 18.40. The new "High Speed" trains will take 66 minutes to reach Faversham, 75 minutes to Whitstable and 94 minutes to reach Margate - 8 minutes slower than the electric services of 50 years ago and only 3 minutes faster than 97 years ago. I am no apologist for the St Pancras services, However, if my memory serves me correctly wasn't the 17.14 train a real one off flyer (i.e. Cannon Street then Chatham then Whitstable). If so, wouldn't it be fairer to compare the High Speed service with an "average" commuter service of 1959? Barrygillingham
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Post by chapelwood on Aug 17, 2009 12:39:31 GMT
I am no apologist for the St Pancras services, However, if my memory serves me correctly wasn't the 17.14 train a real one off flyer (i.e. Cannon Street then Chatham then Whitstable). If so, wouldn't it be fairer to compare the High Speed service with an "average" commuter service of 1959? It was, though the 1644 and 1744 were fast from Chatham to Faversham, and the 1814 was fast from Cannon Street to Sittingbourne, then Whitstable. Passengers for stations Gillingham to Teynham only had the 1718 and 1824. Meanwhile, the peak fast service from Victoria was 1640, 1744, and 1840. The 1959 electrification, plus the building of the M2 a few years later, stimulated a vast amount of housebuilding in the outskirts of Chatham and Gillingham, and at Rainham and Sittingbourne, which means that the number of commuters from Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, and Sittingbourne have vastly increased over 1959 figures. So the trains have to stop at these stations.
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