Regional Eurostar trains

[Eurostar fan]

Dear commuters and departed engineers,

Would you be able to solve a rather important railway question for me?

According to a friend of mine, the north of London Eurostar sets that are currently on lease to the SNCF no longer have some of the fire safety equipment (cable protection and the like) that they would require to travel through the channel tunnel.

Would anybody know if this is the case and, if so, when this material was removed?

Many thanks,

Eurostar fan

[O.V.S.Bulleid]

Dear Eurostar fan

You are correct that the NoL Eurostars are on lease to SNCF and are being used on their domestic services along with five or six of their full length sets.

Search as I may, I cannot find any information relating to the removal of fire safety equipment.

Don't forget that these sets are owned by EUKL, not SNCF, so to undertake this would require EUKL's agreement.

Being synical EUKL might wish to remove the ability to operate through the tunnel and thus try to avoid any competition from any organisation wishing to do so - if the UK government decided to break up the company to raise income. Placing them beyond the reach of government for some time would help to reduce the attractiveness of this of course. I have no evidence to support this of course but taking actions to reduce prospects of diluted income would be a natural consideration of any business.

Having said that which would be the cheaper option for any business wishing to acquire the 14 half-sets - put back any changes or go through an accreditation process for using a different type of rolling stock?

(I feel through the ether that a number of businesses are looking at operating competitive services and acquiring underused 373 sets and using them as a first step. SNCF will hang on to as many as possible to avoid competition of course. It may end up as a legal issue based on breaking EU competition law of course.)

Yours sincerely
O.V.S.Bulleid

[Richard Trevithick]

As far as I'm aware, the only equipment that's been removed from any of the Eurostar sets is the 3rd rail shoegear.

I find it impossible to believe that safety equipment has been removed from trains! Dare I ask your source of this information?

RT

[chapelwood]

The following answer was given elsewhere by someone who is involved in Channel Tunnel operations:
"I'd be very surprised if any cabling, apart from that to and from the
third-rail collection gear, had been touched. The automatically-closing
inter-unit gangways MAY have been removed, or more likely, locked out."

[Eurostar Fan]

Thank you very much for all the answers. Just to answer Mr Trevithick, it arose in conversation with a policy wonk rather than an industry source but it was someone who is usually pretty well informed. I did not get a chance to ask for his source.

Like you, I found it hard to believe and so am keen to check the facts. Were it to be true, the implications for athat OVS rightly points out. However, with regard to the sets being under EUKL ownership, we shouldn't forget that EUKL itself is living on borrowed time as the LCR group is due to be split up and its assets sold by the time the ICRR management contract expires in 2010. Hence my curiosity.

[O.V.S.Bulleid]

Dear Eurostar fan

All Eurostar sets have now had 3rd rail equipment removed from them - although it would not be difficult to replace should any use over "Classic" routes achieve a business case for a future owner of EUKL.

We should all be worried if the Government accepts a future bid by any current member of Railteam which is trying to move towards the creation of a monopoly situation for international rail. None of the member rail businesses actually compete on line of route but operate the terminal facilities at major hub stations or have a Siamese-twin like relationship with the infrastructure owner. At some point the EU must intervene under its own competition laws.

I'm not sure that chapelwood's note about any removal of interunit doors would be valid (and he notes it with MAY in capitals) as the half sets need those doors for normal operation.

My understanding is that a number of businesses are considering international services from 2010 and "feelers" are being made at present before coming into the open about the creation of competition. Of course this must concentrate on the 373 units as they are the only ones with type approval to use the Channel Tunnel so any other build would have a lead time before gaining certification. The most successful bid to start competition will come from whoever picks up the rolling stock element of ICRR - so the 22 Inter-Capital and 14 North of London half sets. That must make EUKL a potentially expensive purchase to get market advantage.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Government sold the two types as separate LOTs with a proviso that one bidder cannot acquire both types.....

Yours sincerely
O.V.S.Bulleid