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Post by Richard Trevithick on Sept 17, 2008 19:09:20 GMT
Good evening,
As everybody in SETLand knows by now, unless a last minute miracle takes place (in the form of somebody banging the heads together of the negotiators on both sides), it looks like the 48hr strike is almost definitely going to go ahead next Monday.
Earlier this afternoon I held an emergency staff seance, to get the feeling for what people on the ground think. There is must distress and anger floating around at the moment.
Apparently Mr Crow has pulled the wool over the eyes of SET and rather than balloting just guards, has dragged platform staff AND drivers into the argument. Platform staff have been dragged into the HS1 argument due to their pay deal - which is completely irrelevant to the original argument by RMT! I suspect the only reason for this is to maximise damage to the shareholders. I guess drivers have been dragged into it is because without them, the trains simply won't run, which will cost the company even more money in the short term. Apart from the handful who will be driving on HS1, the drivers too are irrelevant to the HS1 argument! Whatever the reason, this appears to be an extremely dirty trick by RMT.
Apparently SET thought it was only going to be guards going out, but now all 3 grades will be affected. The majority of platform staff and guards are RMT. Approximately 20% of drivers are RMT. This means that unless a large number of non or other union members can be forced to cross the picket lines to work overtime, the service is going to be severely disrupted on all services. There simply won't be enough managers to cover all unstaffed duties on the day. The other worry is, will the people covering the work next week be qualified and current in competentcy for these 3 safety critical roles?
Both sides are admanant they won't budge. They expect the other side to make all the changes to their demands.
To make it worse, SET are allegedly telling all platform staff that it won't be held against them if they decide to strike. However, if they do then all of their backpay (to the average sum of £200-£300) will NOT be paid. I can't see how this is legal - if somebody has worked, then surely they have a legal right to claim their unpaid money? Hopefully this is just another dirty trick to bully them into submitting so managers can be used for guard and driver duties rather than a genuine threat.
The irony is, SET may well have the last laugh. Many people are miffed at this strike. Some have already cancelled their RMT membership, and many others are openly considering doing the same. So in the long run, RMT may lose many members due to this completely unnecesary and irrelevant strike!
Staff morale has been plummeting since Govex took over the franchise several years ago. Many who remember the days of Connex would actually prefer to return to those days, so bad is the feeling right now. All staff are sick of the current penny pinching, cutbacks and being treated like little children to massage the ego of management.
I just hope they agree to call it off and return to the table to continue discussions in an adult manner.
What do people think of this terrible situation? It does appear that both sides don't care about the paying passenger.
Discuss...
Kind regards,
Richard T
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Post by ghostrider on Sept 17, 2008 20:05:43 GMT
hi,
this is my first post but have been lurking for ages.
I'm dead against the strike. they have not properly tired to reach agreement and it's just bob crowe trying to throw his weight around again!
It's to late to back out of the union now but after the strike I will be leaving. tHis time they have gone to far. Their are other unions out there to join.
Was emailed the propaganda from rmt below which is their lame excuse at justifying the strike. I also think managment are just as guilty. However, crowe always has a tantrum and throws his toys out the pram which means we all suffer when hes trying to make himself look big and important. I bet he wont be showing his face around Kent next week!
Ghost Rider
*******
17th September 2008
To all Southeastern Trains Members
Dear Colleagues,
SOUTHEASTERN TRAINS DISPUTE
STAND UP TO MANAGEMENT LIES AND BULLYING
STAND FIRM AND SUPPORT THE STRIKE
In the last couple of days Southeastern management have proved what nasty bits of work they can be by embarking on a campaign to terrorise their own workforce. This is because they are themselves terrified.
We are in possession of an internal 100 page management document which makes it clear that the company simply didn’t believe that RMT would win its strike ballots and the people at the top are asking the lower management; “what went wrong?” They really believed their workers would believe all they rubbish they sprouted and vote against their union.
Well they got that one wrong. This coming Monday and Tuesday over 1,200 RMT members employed by Southeastern have been called upon to take 48 hour strike action in two separate disputes. Retail and Engineering grades will be striking against an effective pay cut while Drivers and Conductor Guard members will be striking against the extension of Driver Only Operation.
Interestingly enough, the company are focussing their attention on picking on retail and engineering staff rather than our train crew members. They have threatened, amongst other things, to withhold back pay and suspend travel facilities. They have even gone as far as to put this in writing to their employees. In addition to this, verbal threats suggesting that anyone that goes on strike will never get promoted so they need not ever bother applying.
This seemingly tough stance by the company is yet another example of them getting it wrong and should be treated with the contempt it deserves. For a start the threat of blacklisting people for promotion in this way is illegal and would constitute a clear breach of contract. With regard to withholding of back money, do they honestly believe for one moment that RMT would settle a dispute on this basis? And even if we did, to take such action would cause damage to management/worker relations that will never be repaired and will impact on customer services.
We are getting feedback from Southeastern members on management’s actions. At first people were quite rightly concerned and doubtful about the situation. But overnight the overwhelming mood is one of anger about the way people are being treated and their commitment to taking strike action has been strengthened. Once again the company have made a wrong call.
The 48 hour strike of retail, engineering and train crew grades will be going ahead and it will be solidly supported. I am aware that management are desperately trying to muster a strike breaking force. They are asking people if they are RMT members and whether they will be attending work next week. For the record they have no right to demand this information and there is no obligation on you to respond.
I thank you for taking the time to digest this information and again urge those of you who have been called upon to take strike action not to book on for any turns of duty between 00.01 hours on Monday 22nd September 2008 and 23.59 hours on Tuesday 23rd September 2008 as previously instructed. We are in dispute with Southeastern for two completely legitimate reasons and there is no way we will back off just because of management lies and intimidation.
The misinformation put about by Southeastern includes some very dubious figures in relation to voting patterns, the value of percentage increases and the like. Well in closing let me put some figures to you that Southeastern management cannot dispute that show how they and their like are raking in it at our expense.
Fact: In 2007/8 Southeastern trains, a so-called privatised company, got £82.3 million in public subsidy from us taxpayers
Fact: in the year to June 2008, passenger numbers were up 6.4% but passenger revenue was up 13% due to Southeastern’s inflation busting fare hikes
Fact: Southeastern’s profits were £17.7 million of which they paid out £14 million to shareholders and retained a profit of £3.7 million. And they want to withhold their lowest paid employees’ back money!
It seems Southeastern aren’t quite the honest operators they would have their employees and customers believe. That’s why we should stand up to these dishonest, money grasping bullies.
SUPPORT THE STRIKE
With best wishes.
Yours sincerely
Bob Crow
GENERAL SECRETARY
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Post by Richard Trevithick on Sept 17, 2008 21:47:22 GMT
I have just been re-reading my old thread from a month ago today ("Trouble at the TOC"). In the letter sent to SET, all Bob Crow said was he was "...balloting his members for industrial action".
Note, he didn't say which ones. In my original post in that thread, I did list the grades that would be balloted as per the information from my informant. Bear in mind that SET do read this website, so they had access to this information too - one whole month ago.
Management are now apparently running around like headless chickens trying to find out who's in which union and what their plans are for next Monday and Tuesday. My informants sense a severe degree of panic in the way they are questioning people.
Putting all this information together, it does start to look like one of my informants is indeed absolutely and perfectly correct in suggesting RMT have pulled the wool over the eyes of SET, bearing in mind the insinuation in the original letter of intent was that only Guards will be balloted. Originally, this would have only affected guarded mainline services operating south of Sevenoaks and east of Otford, Swanley and Strood. There would have easily been enough managers and non RMT members to cover this work. Now, over 80% of the safety critical train despatch staff have been drawn into the strike, meaning only a fraction of the trains that are not cancelled due to lack of guards will not be able to be properly despatched. The irony of this is at many locations over the last year, SET have increased the minimum staffing requirements for safe train despatch at many locations. I wonder if these new rules will conveniently be broken next week? 1 manager = 2 normal staff, 2 mangers = 3 normal staff, etc? Add to that the fact that a large percentage of drivers will not be available to work trains in both mainline and suburban areas, the network is going to griind to a painfull and extremely overcrowded halt!
I would be extremely surprised if SET don't back down at the very last moment. With the expected low staffing levels they will have available next week, they will have no option but to back down and return to the negotiating table! If they don't, the service on offer will be totally sub-standard, and will make 3rd world train operators look superior. It will be nothing short of a joke. Putting it another way, you'll probably be better off by trying to walk to work! And I need not mention the egg they'll all be scraping off their faces.
One parting thought. Engineering staff too have been drawn into this on the basis of the pay deal recently offered. With nobody presumably fixing the trains for 2 days, one does think there will be plenty of stock shortages later in the week due to the backlog. The overall effect will last much longer than 2 days.
Dubious. Devious. Duplicitous. But above all, pure Genius!
Love 'em or loathe 'em, you have to give it to Bob Crow and his worshippers, they have engineered this strike to perfection. SET managers will be having plenty of sleepless nights over the next few days.
RT
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Post by William Dargan on Sept 17, 2008 23:53:34 GMT
Should the strike go ahead (and it's looking likely) the following services are planned: Mainline Area (shuttles) - Margate – Ashford via Canterbury West (hourly shuttle)
- Ramsgate – Tonbridge via Dover (hourly shuttle)
- Hastings – Tonbridge (hourly shuttle)
- Strood – Tonbridge (hourly shuttle)
- Dover Priory - Faversham (hourly shuttle)
- Redhill – Tonbrige (hourly shuttle)
- Bromley North – Grove Park (20min shuttle peaks only)
- Sheerness on Sea – Sittingbourne (hourly shuttle peaks only)
Mainline Area (through trains) - Ramsgate – Victoria (hourly service)
- Gillingham – Victoria (hourly service)
- Ashford – Cannon St (hourly service)
- Swanley – Victoria (hourly service)
- Tonbridge – Charing Cross (three trains per hour)
- Ashford – Cannon St (one train peaks only)
- Tunbridge Wells – Charing Cross (one train peaks only)
- Ramsgate – Cannon St (three trains peaks only)
The following stations will receive a limited service in the peaks only: Aylesham, Bekesbourne, Frant, Stonegate The following stations will not be served by Southeastern services on strike days: Adisham, Barming, Charing, Crowhurst, East Malling, Harrietsham, Hildenborough, Hollingbourne, Kearnsey, Kemsing, Lenham, Martin Mill, Robertsbridge, Sandling, Selling, Sheperds Well, Snowdon, Walmer, West St Leonards, Westenhanger |
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Post by NoOnions on Sept 18, 2008 9:44:32 GMT
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Post by moggycat on Sept 18, 2008 13:45:52 GMT
I am not normally a supporter of unions but if I may quote from Bob Crow's quoted letter from a 'customer' perspective:
- 'bullying' - Yes SE bully us customers too - with inflated fares whilst constantly tweaking and reducing commuter services (demise of 16.55 Cannon St commuter service) from where I live (Folkestone) and forcing us to travel on uncomfortable trains every day (the Networker) - not ever designed for a long distance fast service - unacceptably uncomfortable when you consider how much we pay and how much this has increased in recent years. And arrogantly refusing to even consider providing us with a proper train the same as people travelling to Hastings and Broadstairs have.
- 'Misinformation' - Announcements about what a wonderful train operator they are. At Tonnbridge station yesterday while I waited in the said uncomfortable train which was about 15 mins late I saw a huge advertising poster saying how good they are and how spot on their timkeeping is - I canot use a suitable expletive here as it will be blocked.
- 'aren't quite the honest operators they would have customerts and employees believe' - well I absolutely support that statement - for numerous reasons - see above, and fiddling timekeeping figures by running trains fast through stations, blaming Notwork Rail for delays and problems when they have also contributed to them - and all sorts of dubious practices.
And many more examples that I don't have time or space to mention here.
They seem to think that us customers are so stupid that we will believe all the hype and not spot what they are really getting up to.
So if the strike highlights the shortcomings of this operator from a customet perspective then I support it and wish we customers could take direct action against them.
At least Connex were 'honestly' stupid and what you saw was what you got - unlike this lot who pretend to be efficient and customer focussed but the reality is quite the opposite.
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Post by Richard Trevithick on Sept 18, 2008 17:22:34 GMT
Below is the latest propaganda to be issued to the living from RMT earlier today. My contact is a little miffed that RMT have put approximately 400 emails in the "to" field, rather than using the BCC so they are all hidden from each other. She is now expecting a deluge of spam and other unwanted rubbish in her inbox. Good old RMT, can't even send a bulk email properly!  Anyway, moving on, in the interests of everybody, I sincerely hope that SET are sucessful with their court injunction. The only true issue is the DOO status of HS1/Javelin trains. The platform staff pay deal was purely a dirty trick to artificially bump up the numbers (as was getting the drivers in too). My contact has been talking to a few colleagues on the platform, and the average increase that they are striking for equates to less than £60 per year per person (the difference between 4.3% and 5.x%). Based on these figures, it will take up to approximately 3 years to claim back any lost strike money! Putting it another way, it's a completely pointless reason to strike for, considering the "gain" (if achieved!) will equate to a little over £1/week. They should accept 4.3% and move on. In the current economic climate many people are getting less than 2%, and thousands are likely to end up unemployed. It is a VERY good deal on the table. RT **************************************** NEWS RELEASE September 18, 2008 South Eastern sabotages talks with injunction threat SOUTH EASTERN Trains today sabotaged emergency talks over industrial disputes involving 1,250 RMT members at the company when it informed the union’s negotiators that it intended to seek an injunction against strike action due to begin on Monday. The company announced its intention of resorting to the courts at the start of a meeting the union believed was intended to find a way forward on disputes over the company’s intention to extend driver-only operation and over pay the pay of retail and engineering staff. Two days of strike action on both disputes is scheduled to begin at a minute after midnight on Monday, September 22. “The company clearly had no intention of negotiating today, because it effectively scuppered them from the start,” RMT general secretary Bob Crow said today. “Opening talks by telling us they intend to haul us before the courts under the anti-union laws is not the action of an employer seeking to resolve disputes. “We do not yet know the exact nature of the company’s legal challenge, but RMT has conducted its ballots in strict accordance with the law and we will defend our position rigorously. “Whatever the outcome in court the issues at the heart of these disputes will not have gone away, and the company is taking a short-sighted course that threatens to undermine industrial relations at South Eastern even further “The company’s systematic intimidation of our members over recent days has already inflamed the situation, and resorting to the courts can only increase their anger. “There are real issues that need to be addressed on both these disputes, and rather than wasting time and possibly large sums of money running to judges the company should get around the table and negotiate with us,” Bob Crow said. |
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Post by superANN on Sept 19, 2008 8:11:41 GMT
Morning
yesterday thurs, I got to West Malling to find the train cancelled due to industrial action, can anyone explain it was the 8.52 to Victoria.
regards
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Post by chapelwood on Sept 19, 2008 12:11:16 GMT
yesterday thurs, I got to West Malling to find the train cancelled due to industrial action, can anyone explain it was the 8.52 to Victoria. The real reason, according to the 'yesterday's performance' page on the Southeastern website, was electrical supply problems at Ashford.Apparently the train started, very late, at Ashford (it should start from Canterbury West), then ran fast to Bromley South, presumably via Tonbridge, which was not a lot of use for passengers waiting for it at West Malling. |
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Post by true on Sept 19, 2008 12:33:17 GMT
According to the BBC, the Drivers and Conductors strike is off but a strike by Engineering and Retail staff will still go ahead. Am I correct to assume that the strike timetable will continue as planned, the fact that one strike is off making no difference at all to passengers? The SET site would suggest this at the moment.
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Post by Stumpyuk on Sept 19, 2008 13:22:48 GMT
News at lunchtime said strike off, SET had obtained their injunction....
remains to be seen.
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Post by true on Sept 19, 2008 14:19:43 GMT
Now it's a normal weekday service - hurrah!
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Post by Richard Trevithick on Sept 19, 2008 17:18:51 GMT
Indeed, strikes cancelled on both days - business as usual.
RMT are spitting feathers that the injunction worked. That was for 500 drivers & guards.
There is a revised pay deal on the table for the 750 platform staff, so that has been called off for that reason.
Happy weekend!
RT
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Post by genehuntisking on Sept 20, 2008 7:31:20 GMT
Indeed, strikes cancelled on both days - business as usual. RMT are spitting feathers that the injunction worked. That was for 500 drivers & guards. There is a revised pay deal on the table for the 750 platform staff, so that has been called off for that reason. Happy weekend! RT My understanding is that the injunction worked due to RMT drivers being included in the ballot when they are not affected by the pay deal, so the RMT intend to reballot the conductors. Whether there will be a strike among station staff is another matter. I hear that when the conductors strike was initially called off due to the threatened legal action, but it was proposed to go ahead with the station staff strike, a lot of the station staff felt they had been left out on a limb by the RMT. At one of the major stations the local rep was recommending staff to come in on Monday before the strike was formally called off, while at another key point on the South Eastern network, several members of station staff and at least two of the local RMT reps resigned in protest. I am also led to believe that once the conductors strike was called off there was a concerted effort for South Eastern to retrain managers who had been passed out in conductors duties to do station despatch work instead, which would enable a full service to run, industrial action or not. I would suggest that with support for the station staff strike ebbing away, discretion was the better part of valor. The Gene Genie |
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Post by Richard Trevithick on Sept 20, 2008 9:11:33 GMT
Dear Gene, Being from the living world, I suspect your information is far closer to the truth than mine.  From a recent seance, I am aware that many drivers were extremely annoyed that they had been dragged into industrial action for something that didn't affect them. Many were even more annoyed by the fact that so many platform staff were either going to ignore the strike or had simply left the union "in protest" whilst they were still forced to stay out, and lose considerable amounts of money. The drivers had been told in no uncertain terms by RMT that they MUST strike (even although HS1 and platform staff salary has absolutely nothing to do with them). There have been many complaints by staff of all grades complaining that management are bullying them, but it appears the RMT have been working overtime in bullying drivers into unjust industrial action. It appears that RMT have shot themselves in the foot with this dispute, as not only have plenty of platform staff left, rumour has it that many drivers are going to leave now they see themselves as being used by the union to better other grades whilst nothing is ever done for them. If true, it's terrible that the local rep has been advising people to work before the strike was called off. Whether you agree or disagree with a strike, if it's been voted for then you must support your union. That local rep should have his rep status stripped for going against what was allegedly a democratic vote. Apparently, the retraining effort has been extremely desperate for most of this week. Managers not seen for years have been crawling out of the woodwork to be trained in train despatch and guards duties! Although technically a waste of time, money and resources on this occasion, if another strike is called within 6 months then they'll be perfectly set up to handle it with the minimum of disruption. However, with the number of staff reportedly leaving RMT over this bad call, there will be much fewer positions to fill should that unfortunate event ever happen. At least the good news now is next week is "business as usual". Kind regards, and a happy weekend to All. RT |
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