Victoria services running via Catford

[True]

My usual train, the 06.10 from Faversham used to have a timetable arrival time of 07.28, but it frequently managed to arrive at around about 07.15 (this was 18 months to 2 years ago). Now, the timetable arrival time has been put back to 07.22 - it often manages to achieve this, but now, when running on schedule, it always takes the long way round via Catford.

Does anyone know of there is there a good reason for this (other new services in the way etc)? When the train is running late it often goes through the usual faster way via Dulwich etc and makes up some if not all of the time. Conversely, if it's still early after Catford, it sometimes runs down another little scenic route close to Battersea Power station and kills a minute or two. I wonder if such tactics are part of Govex's bag of tricks to make the new 'High Speed' service more appealing.

[chapelwood]

Sept 16, 2008 12:16:32 GMT @True said:

06.10 from Faversham. Now, the timetable arrival time has been put back to 07.22 - it often manages to achieve this, but now, when running on schedule, it always takes the long way round via Catford. Does anyone know of there is there a good reason for this (other new services in the way etc)?

Orpington to Victoria trains have become more frequent, and there's now one due into Victoria at 0720, so even if your train ran via Kent House it wouldn't arrive any earlier. Transport for London would like the Orpington to Victoria stopping service to run every 15 minutes, which it does now off-peak. The 0610 from Faversham (used to be 0611) seems to have been timetabled to run via Catford for at least the last two years.

[Richard Trevithick]

Hi True,

Aren't all Faversham services booked along the Catford Loop? I thought this was the norm. I suspect this is the case as I believe 7 minutes is the additional time given for services booked this way instead of the mainline.

The scenic route is Stewarts Lane. I suspect your train is also booked this way to Victoria, which is usual when routed via Catford. If there is nothing else about, and/or the signaller isn't afraid to send the train via an unbooked route (many are actually scared to do this incase it causes any delay, they will be accused of not doing things by the book), they will cross it over at Voltaire Road Jn and send it up the Chatham Reversible, which is several minutes quicker than via the Lane. I suspect on this occasion it has nothing to do with Govex, but simply on how well the signaller is able (and willing) to regulate trains to minimise delay.

As Chapelwood said, the mainline would be of no advantage due to the Orpington-Vic stopping service. The only way around this would be to put the stopper into the loop at Herne Hill and let you sail past there, but then there would probably be a FCC train in there already, and the stopper would likely incur an unnecessary delay either way.

Incidentally, after a quick look at my etheral timetable, it appears the 15 minute Orpington-Victoria stopping service starts at around 9am - much later than the time of the Faversham train in question. Also, I am led to believe that DaFT/TFL only wanted a Beckenham Junction - Victoria stopping service every 15 minutes, but out of the kindness of their hearts, SET extended this to Orpington off of their own backs.

Kind regards,

Richard T

[genehuntisking]

Sept 16, 2008 12:16:32 GMT @True said:

My usual train, the 06.10 from Faversham used to have a timetable arrival time of 07.28, but it frequently managed to arrive at around about 07.15 (this was 18 months to 2 years ago). Now, the timetable arrival time has been put back to 07.22 - it often manages to achieve this, but now, when running on schedule, it always takes the long way round via Catford.

Does anyone know of there is there a good reason for this (other new services in the way etc)? When the train is running late it often goes through the usual faster way via Dulwich etc and makes up some if not all of the time. Conversely, if it's still early after Catford, it sometimes runs down another little scenic route close to Battersea Power station and kills a minute or two. I wonder if such tactics are part of Govex's bag of tricks to make the new 'High Speed' service more appealing.

If this is the train I am thinking of (and I am doing this from memory having had a couple of weeks off), didn't it run non stop Chatham/Rochester to Victoria (i.e. not calling at Bromley South)?

I seem to remember there was one train up the Chatham line (05.28 Ramsgate - Victoria?) that always used to bowl in ages early, as with a couple of minutes slack up Sole St bank it would get to Shortlands Jn a couple of minutes early, and "beat" the Orpington - Victoria stopper through Shortlands thus ensuring it had a clear run up the main. It was always booked via Catford, hence the later advertised arrival time, and indeed is booked over Shortlands Jn after the Orpington train has plodded off up the main line calling all stations.

I would suggest what has happened is there has been a timetable tweak, either and additional stopper via Herne Hill chucked in, or maybe the train mainline train calls at Bromley South now, and doesn't have the opportunity to be over Shortlands early, instead waiting time at Bromley South and not getting the scorching run it used to.

This is just supposition on my part, so forgive me if I am wrong.

The Gene Genie.

[chapelwood]

Sept 16, 2008 19:43:58 GMT Richard Trevithick said:

Aren't all Faversham services booked along the Catford Loop?

Off-peak ones are. True's train actually starts from Ramsgate, and is fast (by Southeastern's meaning of the word) from Chatham, but we've discussed it as the 0610 from Faversham as that is where True joins it.
I've had a couple of journeys recently on the 0945 Faversham to Victoria, and was surprised that, instead of running via East Brixton and Stewarts Lane it went via Catford, Brixton, and the Up Chatham Fast. Didn't make it any quicker, as both times it had a lengthy signal stop at Brixton.
The advantage of using the Stewarts Lane route for up trains is that the Chatham Reversible can be used effectively as the Down Slow. The signaller won't be popular if he sends an up train over it, only to delay a down train at Battersea Pier Junction. And it's no use getting a train to Grosvenor Road early, for example by sending it via Kent House when it's booked via Catford, if it then has to stand outside Victoria for several minutes waiting for a platform to become clear.

[True]

Thanks for all the responses. It is a bit easy to immediately suspect a Govex conspiracy whenever anything changes for the worse.

The Stewarts Lane route is only used occasionally, perhaps once a fortnight.

The Orpington train explanation sounds plausible as often a service arrives at about the same time as ours and sometimes this causes a bit of congestion at the ticket gates.