Severe disruption on the Sheerness Branch

[Ryan Webb]

Hi,

There has been severe disruption on the Sheerness Branch today (05/10) - first off there was a broken down train at Queenborough this morning - no trains ran between 10:30 and 13:05, and again this afternoon, 466037 failed at Queenborough at approximately 15:15, when I went past at just before 5pm, the train was still sitting in Platform 2, the driver/conductor was there with some people in orange hi-visibility jackets.

Anyone know more about the current situation? I make it that Southeastern are now 1 x 466 short for their diagrams, is this the case or is it worse?

Will we see a Class 508 back on Southeastern metals in service soon?

Thanks
Ryan

[genehuntisking]

Oct 5, 2009 19:24:48 GMT Ryan Webb said:

Hi,

There has been severe disruption on the Sheerness Branch today (05/10) - first off there was a broken down train at Queenborough this morning - no trains ran between 10:30 and 13:05, and again this afternoon, 466037 failed at Queenborough at approximately 15:15, when I went past at just before 5pm, the train was still sitting in Platform 2, the driver/conductor was there with some people in orange hi-visibility jackets.

Anyone know more about the current situation? I make it that Southeastern are now 1 x 466 short for their diagrams, is this the case or is it worse?

Will we see a Class 508 back on Southeastern metals in service soon?

Thanks
Ryan

Three different units all sat down yesterday (some more than once!) and all in the Queenborough area. The cause is still something of a mystery. Appaorx 22.00 last night a 375 test train was run to Sheerness and back (375s are able to record what line voltage they are receiving) with fitters riding while electrical staff monitored readings in Queenborough substation.

Nothing conclusive was found, although when the three 466s that failed during the day were downloaded, they were all found to have failed with the same converter fault, caused by low voltage.

With nothing obvious it was impractical to suspend the Sheerness branch service indefinitely. However I believe drivers on the branch were asked today to pull away from Queenborough in notch 1. Some doubt from Engineering staff that this would make much difference, but so far seems to have worked. Buses were on standby at Sittingbourne and Sheerness from 05.30 this morning as a precaution.

Apparently there have been problems in the Queenborough area for a couple of weeks now with 466s. Will it lead to the return of 508s? In a word : No.

Testing in going to try and ascertain the cause.

The Gene Genie

[Ryan Webb]

Thanks for the reply Gene. IIRC the driver of the train to Sittingbourne this morning departed in P2 - not entirely sure, but by the sounds of the traction motors, it definately wasn't P1.

[Becs Faversham]

Can someone please tell me the difference between notch one and notch 2 and how you can tell?

[Ryan Webb]

Well, the Networkers and Electrostars have a combined Traction Brake Controller which has 4 Power Notches and a slider for the brakes. IIRC each power notch is equivalent to 25% power (please correct me if I'm wrong . If a Networker departs a station in P1, you can tell by the slow speed of the train as well as the slowness of the sounds of the traction motors. Obviously, the higher the notch, the faster the speed of the train and the traction motors sounds. Hope this explains things, I'm sure a real life driver or Gene can tell you more.

[ghostrider]

As Ryan said, Networkers have a Combined Power/Brake Controller (CPBC), which have 9 positions. In the middle is off/coast. Backwards towards the driver are the 4 power notches, and forwards away from the driver are the 4 brake steps (yes, it is back to front!). Full power is with the handle fully towards the driver, emergency brake is fully away.

There is no real way of knowing how much power or brake the driver is applying other than by guessing - a slow & painful acceleration is likely to only be in notch 1 or 2 whereas a normal acceleration is likely to be in 3 or 4. It's the same with the braking, a long & drawn out braking for a station is likely to only be using brake step 1 whilst something a little quicker is likely to be in 2 or 3. Obviously, emergency will stop you quickly, but it's not "standard practice" to use this!

You can crudely consider each power notch to apply 25% more, but in reality it's not like that. In a Networker notch 1 won't get you much above walking speed, yet an Electrostar will accelerate quite happily to linespeed in that same position (although VERY slowly). To get a sensible level of acceleration in a Networker, you really do need to be giving it 3 or 4.

And before anyone asks, 0-60 on a level track with no leaves and good motors is in the region of 70-80 seconds! Not exactly landspeed record breaking equipment, but they will "coast" (the act of knocking the power right off and letting the kinetic & potential energy do the work) for a very, very long distance. For example, trundle out of Penge Tunnel at 20mph and you'll only need to use the brakes all the way to Victoria if you get clear signals - obviously this isn't the normal practice, but it demonstrates the energy saving potential of the train over other types of vehicles. "Coasting" is a positive environmental issue - all the time you aren't taking power, you're burning less fuel at the power station as well as keeping the electricity bill low.

You heard it here first.

[Ryan Webb]

Today yielded a strange turn of events - 375303 and 375615 were running on the line vice 2 466s, is this a one day thing or is it until the power problems at Queenborough and/or the broken down 466s are repaired?

Thanks
Ryan

[William Dargan]

Network Rail have issued an instruction that until the issues with the power supply can be found and sorted, no single 2-car units are to stop at Queenborough.

[Ryan Webb]

Thanks for the information William Dargan, I had a feeling something like that was going to be implemented due to the simple fact of the loss of power and 4 466s failing in the space of 24 hours.

Long may the 375s stay on the line!

[genehuntisking]

Oct 8, 2009 21:59:11 GMT William Dargan said:

Network Rail have issued an instruction that until the issues with the power supply can be found and sorted, no single 2-car units are to stop at Queenborough.

Hmmm, typical Network Rail. Rather than sort out the outstanding power supply issue, just ban stock. That wil be great for a day or two until peak trains are short formed owing to having to supply 375s to run on the Sheerness line.

Its coming up to the time of year when stock availability is always tight, owing to the amount of flats.

Why not run pairs of 466s. or four car Networkers on the branch?

My understanding was that the convertors were failing due to low current. So a pair of 466s would have two convertors, as would 465/2 or 465/9 units. In theory there should be spare stock of all of these classes, so where is it and why isn't it being used?

The Gene Genie

[Ryan Webb]

I'm currently on a 465/2 on the 0721 Sheerness to Sittingbourne service. How is it that a 465 can stop at Queenborough and a 466 cannot? Is it due to the two power coaches and the pickups?

[ghostrider]

My only guess is based on the comments from William Dargan a few days ago in that "single 2-car units" are banned. As the 465 is 2x466 in multiple, presumably the theory is if one half of the train fails, then the other half should push/pull it along. However, I'd have thought that if there are issues with not enough power available, then a single 2-car would be a safer option (drawing approximately half the current) than a 4-car.


From a technical point of view, a 465/2 (also a 465/9) is effectively two 466s bolted together. That's why the 4-car Metcams have 2 compressors, aux converters, etc. All of these bits are the same make & model as the 2-cars.

Whatever has happened, it appears that Mr Hunt has been listened to!

Ghostrider

[Ryan Webb]

Today there was a mixture of stock on the line - 465250 was running as well as a pair of 466s. Does anyone know if this is only temporary or are we going to see 4-car Networkers (either 2 x 465s or 4 x 466s) on the line from December?

Thanks
Ryan

[genehuntisking]

Oct 13, 2009 19:07:10 GMT Ryan Webb said:

Today there was a mixture of stock on the line - 465250 was running as well as a pair of 466s. Does anyone know if this is only temporary or are we going to see 4-car Networkers (either 2 x 465s or 4 x 466s) on the line from December?

Thanks
Ryan

Booked stock from December is single 466 units, the current set up is to see if double of everything stops trains grinding to a halt at Queenborough. I am led to believe current monitoring equipment should be in place from today.

Interestingly since "doubling up" the branch service with a MetCam 465 and pair of 466s, it seems to have run OK. Then again it has been dry, and there is a school of thought that the electrical problems may be when it rains. All week it has been fine, but here in "Huntsville" it looks like rain could be on the way, is the branch about to stop?

The Gene Genie

[Ryan Webb]

I hope not, but then again, if it does, then we'll have some help with diagnosing the problem and hopefully a solution.