Major delays on Southeastern Mainline today

[garyw]

Major delays on Southeastern Mainline today due to a broken down train at Hildenborough. From what I can gather the train had a fault which caused it to stop (brakes problem?).
The train crew rebooted the train and it never restarted which stranded the train on the down line and caused major problems which are still ongoing.

Maybe one of the more train techincally minded can answer a couple of questions for me?

Why did it take a rescue train three hours to get to the broken down train? Couldn't a normal commuter train do the job?

Why are there still delays and why is the section of track between Tonbridge and Orpington closed? Trains are being diverted via Redbridge ading almost 50 minutes onto the journey time.

[genehuntisking]

First of all the unit was on the up line, the train involved being 06.39 Ore - Cannon St.

It depends what you mean by "the rescue" train. When the Ore service came to a stand (formed 12 coach 375) very quickly the following 07.40 Tunbridge Wells - Charing Cross (formed 10 coach Networker) was at a stand behind it at Hildenborough. This had to be moved back first before any rescue train could go to the passengers. There was a nearby access point (from a public road bridge) however the gate was chained out of use owing to the access steps being in poor condition. This meant that detraining was out of the question. To my mind trying to arrange road transport to meet somewhere in the region of 750 - 800 people would have been a logistical nightmare.

So the decision was made to get a train up behind to try and push/rescue the passengers. The Tunbridge Wells train was moved back wrong line to Tonbridge (a series of procedures to follow, as not a signalled move), and an additional delay while trains were emptied at Tonbridge to (1) provide a platform for the Tunbridge Wells train to come back into and (2) supply an assisting train. The assisting train needed to be emptied, otherwise its easy to get two train loads of people stuck in the middle of nowhere.

While this was going on the driver was in touch with various technical people receiving assistance, but the fault appears to have caused the whole 12 coach train to have become disabled. There was also a possibility of an attaching train having the fault transferring. About 09.40 the front and rear units got power and there was hope of limping the train forward to Sevenoaks, but this was scuppered when the brakes would not then release.

During this time an empty 12 coach train was brought up to Hildenborough and at 10.00 went onto the back of the failed train to remove the passengers. By shortly after 10.00, the evacuation of the failed train was underway, however it required 750 - 800 people to walk though one gangway connection into the other train which had arrived behind. As can be imagined this took time, but by 11.00 the passengers were transfered and the rescue train was ready to move back to Tonbridge, once authorization for the wrong line move was obtained.

During this time a crew from GBRf were found to go to Hoo Jn and pick up and engine there, and this then started making its way over towards Sevenoaks. The fitters were on site as well, but despite numerous efforts unable to get the train to come back to life.

There were several false dawns when the staff on site believed they had fixed the faults, only for something else to then occur.

During this time only a limited amount of trains could go via Redhill (Network Rail Sussex zone stated not more than one per hour to be diverted) and this was also hindered by Networkers not being cleared to run via Redhill, and also the limited crew knowledge (only Tonbridge and Hastings crews sign the route via Redhill). All other trains were having to use the down line in both directions, and owing to the nature of the signalling, a maximum of one train every 15 minutes could go up the down line (assuming of course that nothing is actually coming the other way).

The rescue engine from Hoo Jn got to the failure at around 13.00, and was attached to haul the errant train away. Owing to the different couplings on loco and units, this meant the movement back to Tonbridge could only go at a maximum of 5mph. The wrong line move commenced at 13.13, and was back in clear at Tonbridge by 13.54, at which time the up line could be used for the first time since 07.45 this morning.

During this time disruption spread out over a vast area due to train crews in the wrong place, not helped by the complexity of the crew workings. The intricate nature of the crew working is something that South Eastern are aware of, but have so far chosen not to address, for whatever reason.

In addition the supervision of train crew has been drastically reduced, instead of each depot having its own Train Crew Supervisor, they are now based at Orpington and Ashford for the whole county (so one person deals with seven depots instead of one). I understand train crew find it difficult to contact these staff, as needless to say the phone is constantly busy due to the vastly increased workload. This is another issue that I believe South Eastern are aware of.

The Gene Genie.

[paolo]

It took me nearly three hours to get in this morning due to this and I can't believe after just checking their website, that they are still having problems.

This was the first train that I caught on time since getting back to work after the Christmas break.
Southeastern are a complete disgrace and should do the decent thing and hand the keys back!

[celestine]

Gene Genie, that is really interesting (I know that sounds cynical or sarcastic in type but I don't mean it like that. I am actually interested in how they rescue people from trains stranded between stations). How do you know so much? Are you a driver? Or Charlie Horton in disguise?
And yes, it took me three hours to get to work this morning too!
Happy new Year everyone!
x

[garyw]

Thanks The Gene Genie, I appreciate the response.

no, The Gene Genie can't be Charles Horton because he actually knows what's going on.......!

[paolo]

In view of the recent (lack of) performance of South-eastern and cooking of the books in reference to compensation for us poor suckers buying season tickets, I have decided to keep a travel diary.
So far it's not looking good, out of the last 2 weeks, only one of my trains arrived in London on time.
Appalling!

[Richard Trevithick]

Good afternoon Paolo,

It will be interesting to hear how your travel diary pans out over the coming weeks and months, please keep us informed. May I ask between which stations you are travelling?

Also, bear in mind that "on time" can be up to 5 mins late. Although I agree this is wrong, I am curious to know if you are taking this into account? Perhaps you can record the data and extrapolate tables for "real world" (i.e. +/- 2 mins) late and a "railway time" (i.e. 5+ mins) late.

Happy commuting,

RT

[a Guest]

Dear Paolo,

Maybe you're right and large numbers of Southeastern staff are in a conspiracy to commit fraud when publishing performance figures to the general public,Mmmmm. or perhaps not.

As Dick said,it will be interesting to see how your diary goes.
When you do your diary ,to make it a little balanced,could you include delays,DUE TO NETWORK RAIL,IE Signal problems,Track circuit faults, broken rails,Trespassers on the line,Animals on the line,Points failures,Staff shortages,Snow and ice on the conductor rail,contaminated rails due to leaf fall,Bridge bashes (vehicle's hitting bridges,which happens on a regular basis),Suicides,which run at about 20 a month in the UK,Security alerts including evacuations of stations causing endless delays,Freight trains breaking down or running late,failure of instruments in signal boxes, Barriers failing on level crossings,flooding,Police chasing suspects on the line,Someone deciding to throw a bike over the bridge onto the line,problems with electrical substations,Eurostar getting priority over Southeastern trains.Signals not showing correctly,Numerous regulations that Southeastern drivers must adhere to ,over running engineering works,etc etc.
If it's not down to Network rail,can you bear in mind when doing your diary that it might be.

A youth holding the door open because 'He's talking to his bro'.

Passengers fighting.

Passengers collapsed because they are drunk

passengers pulling the alarm because they fell asleep and missed their station

passengers holding the doors open because their mates are just coming

passengers that have dropped their belongings on the track

passengers that want to know were the train is going after being told fifteen times

passengers that push the alarm in the toilet instead of the flush

The need to wait for an ambulance due to a passenger being taken ill

the conductor asking people leave the train because they have no tickets

idiots that pull the alarm for a laugh

I'm sure your fellow posters can think of other reasons but I've lost the will to live

A Guest

[stumpy]

nice idea - but to do so requires that you are told the truth as to why you are delayed. from my experience, this doesnt often happen.

[paolo]

Also, life is too short to be going into all that detail.
I shall be merely stating whether it arrives at my station on time, or at Charing Cross

[paulbgillingham]

Timekeeping has got substantially worse this year.

This could be due to a number of possibilities, of which I would leave out of contention railway staff trying to inconvenience passengers. Much more likely are:

The timetable giving priority to the St Pancras branch.

Southeastern management reversing the maintenance improvements that had contributed to earlier improvements.

National Rail suddenly getting more incompetent at managing the infrastructure.

Southeastern management cost-cutting so necessary remedail action is not taken on time.

Compounded by failure to recover time when the delay was initiated by Network Rail, which appears to be deliberate and contrary to how any railwayman I've ever met would behave.

Still think the main problem is likely to the new timetable not working properly.

[A Guest]

my point was.

I know this isn't a very popular thing to say on this forum,but if your train is late it's not always Southeastern trains fault, simply for the reasons i mentioned above.No matter how much people close their eyes or put their fingers in their ears huge numbers of delays are out of Southeasterns control.

[heofgreatwisdom]

Dear Guest and others. I think the majority of us on this forum, especially those who travel daily, are aware that not all delays and problems can be laid at the door of SET. However, if I pay £5000 per annum to a company for a service, then I have a right to expect that service and not an excuse from the provider that it is not their fault if the service for which I have paid does not come up to standard. If the provider cannot provide the service because its provider is failing then it is not up to me to sort that out. My contract is with SET, not with NR or any other connected provider. If SET is unable to fulfil its contract then it has the right to withdraw. SET's problem is that it has no alternative provider. But again that failing can not, and should not, be laid at my door! SET undertook the franchise knowing what it involved. I repeat, my contract is with SET, not with anyone else.

HOGW

[celestine]

A couple of comments:
1. When it is snowy etc, doesn't SET get compensation payments from NR? ( I may have made this up!) If this is so, then morally, they could be passing this on to us, their customers, but that doesn't happen. So the delays mioay not be thioer fault, but the lack of resolution is.

2: On my train yesterday (the 7.40am from Staplehurst) it was announced that "this train is under review as it is constantly late". (Many cheers from passengers) Anyone know what that means? Will they simply adjust the arrival time to be 10 mins later, hence meeting targets?

Cheers,
Cel

[garyw]

Jan 18, 2011 9:28:50 GMT celestine said:

A couple of comments:
1. When it is snowy etc, doesn't SET get compensation payments from NR? ( I may have made this up!) If this is so, then morally, they could be passing this on to us, their customers, but that doesn't happen. So the delays mioay not be thioer fault, but the lack of resolution is.

Yes, they do and they have. I've no idea how much though -> www.southeasternrailway-forum.co.uk/2011/01/southeaster-gets-compensation-from.html

Jan 18, 2011 9:28:50 GMT celestine said:

2: On my train yesterday (the 7.40am from Staplehurst) it was announced that "this train is under review as it is constantly late". (Many cheers from passengers) Anyone know what that means? Will they simply adjust the arrival time to be 10 mins later, hence meeting targets?

Cheers,
Cel

Probably that the times will be adjusted in the May timetable review. What they often do is (as an example) have a train that is scheduled to arrive in London at 09:00 and it arrives, on average, around 09:03 is simply to edit the timetable at have that train as arriving at 09:04. Bingo, Instant on time train from May onwards... Except that it'll arrive at 09:09 instead......

My evening journey has gone from 80 minutes to 90 because of this trick.


Oh and as for a train diary -> www.southeasternrailway-forum.co.uk/p/my-travel-diary-jan-dec-2010.html