Where have all the Class 466s gone?

[Ryan Webb]

Hi, I'm new around here, used to be gillsrocknroll on the old BBC board, I am also the only Sheppeyite (unless DaveSheerness has joined!

Anyway, can anyone tell me why Southeastern are using a Class 508 on the Sheerness Line instead of a 466? There is still one 466 running, just the other one has been replaced with an albeit nicely-refurbished-but-still-highly-unreliable Class 508.

I'm not really bothered, as the 508s have more room and are more comfortable, but I'd like to know if the dreaded 508s are making a come back in the new timetable in May, even though it isn't mentioned on the Southeastern website ....

Thanks in advance.
Ryan

[Richard Trevithick]

Hi Gills / 466, and welcome!

Wasn't there a big U-turn about 6 months ago regarding scrapping the 508s / returning them to Liverpool? I think some have gone, but a few are being kept after all.

The majority of the 466s are running around on suburban and mainline services. Perhaps the requirements for these units with the new timetable on these services could have played a hand in the decision?

Richard

[Ryan Webb]

Hi Richard

I know half of the twelve 508s (201/2/4/6/9/12) were sent to Wabtec Doncaster for warm storage.
The remaining six (203/5/7/8/10/11) have slowly been refurbished, I know 508205/10/11 are back in service. What I was wondering was if they were going to make a comeback on the Sheerness or Medway Valley Lines, or even be replaced with Southern 377/3s when we swap some 465/2s for the aformentioned 377s?

Thanks
Ryan

[trainplanner]

Good Evening to 466 Networkers.
I've been diverted a number of times recently via slade green, due to various problems, it woudl seem that many of the missing networkers seem to be sitting in slade green, and on my travels north to derby/doncaster i've noticed one or two more sets than usual in the works.

Perhaps the reason for the lack of notworkers on the kent lines is due to high levels of failures attributed to limited maintenance?

i've heard recently of a set requiring virtual rebuilding below the sole bar, due to be dragged to chatham with physical connections but nothing electrical/air connected, resulting in serious wheel flats at best and a complete rebuild required at worst..

What do people think, are the networkers getting more unreliable due to restricted maintenance caused by cost cutting?

TP

[genehuntisking]

It would be a bit unfair to say the Networkers are getting more unreliable, they have never been great in the first place! In truth there is also a lot more on them to go wrong and knock them out of service. When compared to the old slam door EPB units, there is P.A., TPWS, vigilance control, OTMR all which could be a show stopper which EPBs never had. That said they do also have some inherited design faults. Whoever decided to have a gold fish bowl for a windscreen deserves to be shot, as clearly wiping a flat windscreen is far easier than a curve one, and I assume the glass less expensive too. A triumph for style over substance.

I read recently that Networker miles per casualty is gradually creeping in the right direction, although 466s have fallen. In part this was attributed to more 466s working singularly (i.e. on The Sheerness branch and Medway Valley), where as traction faults and such like didn't tend to show when they were being dragged round as part of a 10 coach train (the 466 could be dead on the back and nobody knew until it came to split off!). The issue of 466 availability has not been aided since 466041 was badly damaged after some cowboy dangled a cherrypicker off the wrong bridge on the M20 late one night in February 2007. It has been away at various works for repairs ever since. With I believe 40 diagrams from 43 units, having one stopped for such a long time doesn't help.

One of the failings in the accountancy led approach to running railways is it is deemed "uneconomic" to hold spare parts. What actually tends to happen is a unit is held out of traffic for months on end (usually following a major failure) and systematically robbed to keep others going. Networkers were designed to be modular, so that when a part failed you took that out, slipped in the new part and off you went. Not having a new part in store severely damages this concept!

However there may be some relief on the horizon. From December 2008 the bay platforms at Blackfriars are due to shut to allow Thameslink upgrade work, and the exisiting South Eastern services to Blackfriars will be extended to West Hampstead/St Albans/Luton (depending on who you listen to). They will be worked by 319 units. Originally there was a plan for some 465s to be cascaded to Southern, but the DfT have decided it would cost as much to route clear Networkers round South London as build some new dual voltage 377s, so in theory there could be an additional 10 465s knocking around to strengthen some of the shorter peak trains.

In another DfT inspired move, Tonbridge - Redhill will be handed over to Southern (and the service reduced to an hourly shuttle), and the remaining six 508s handed back to the leasing company in December 2008.

Hope this is of interest.

Gene Genie

[Ryan Webb]

This evening I travelled on 466013, and it looked like it had been slightly refirbished inside. The main change I noticed was the LCD Screens had been replaced and moved to the middle of the carriage not at the ends. Is this a common occurance or a one off trial?

Thanks in advance
Ryan

[Richard Trevithick]

Apr 30, 2008 17:01:02 GMT Ryan Webb said:

This evening I travelled on 466013, and it looked like it had been slightly refirbished inside. The main change I noticed was the LCD Screens had been replaced and moved to the middle of the carriage not at the ends. Is this a common occurance or a one off trial?

This is the plan for the whole of the fleet. It also includes CCTV and front-facing cameras, amongst other minor upgrades.

Richard

[heofgreatwisdom]

Regarding 466041. The RAIB site has some good pix of this vehicle and its damage.

[genehuntisking]

i've heard recently of a set requiring virtual rebuilding below the sole bar, due to be dragged to chatham with physical connections but nothing electrical/air connected, resulting in serious wheel flats at best and a complete rebuild required at worst..

The unit concerned in the incident on Good Friday (466036) wasn't as badly damaged as had been initially thought. It is back in service, and finished up at Ashford last night.

466041 has made it back to Slade Green too, arriving there early on Saturday afternoon.

Apart from the modification to the P.I.S. which had been placed on hold, I think things are starting to get a bit brighter again for the 466 fleet.

The Gene Genie